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Billede:


Billede information:
Fugleart: Svanegås x Canadagås - (Anser cygnoides x Branta canadensis) - Swan Goose x Greater Canada Goose
Lokalitet: Vedbæk havn, Sjælland, Danmark
Dato: 18. januar 2007
Billede info: Denne gåsefugl har holdt til i Vedbæk Havn i hvert fald én måned, hvor den hygger som med et par gråænder.
Billede opsætning: Canon EOS 30D+EF 100-400mmL f/4,5-5,6 IS
Fotograf: Jørgen Dam, Danmark
Del af temaet: Hybrider
Uploadet den: 18. januar 2007
Hits: Billedet har været vist 4136 gange.



Kommentarer:

Rasmus Strack skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 19.21
Har selv set denne fugl et par gange, og jeg tror ikke at det er en hybrid med Grågås. Bemærk de gule ben, noget vi normalt kun ser hos Indisk gås. Fuglen her er dog nok heller ikke en hybrid med Indisk gås, men kan der være Kejsegås i den?

Mvh RS


Jørgen Dam skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 20.03
Jeg var sammen med et par rigtig fine fuglefotografer i havnen, og de var ikke sikker på blandingsforholdet her - bl.a. på grund af det hvide over næbbet.
Selv skal jeg nok holde mig fra at komme med sikre - ja selv usikre - forsøg på identifikation af fuglen.
Men den tøffer rundt i havnen, så rigtige kendere kan jo forsøge sig ved selvsyn in natura.
MVH
Jørgen Dam


Morten kofoed-Hansen skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 21.28
Fuglen har opholdt sig i havnen siden sensommeren. Jeg mener også, at benfarven udelukker alt andet end indisk gås eller kejsergåsXcanda. Dog er ligheden med gråXcanada på følgende foto slående:
http://www.pbase.com/marvbreece/image/57944637..
Har selv indtastet den som canadaXkejser, men hvor kommer firkantet hovedprofil egentlig fra?
mvh MKH


Harry J Lehto skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 21.28
A very interesting bird. It would be useful to see the wings open. The feet appear yellow. This rules out a pale faced leucistic Canada Goose. The yellow feet point towards an emperor goose (Anser canagica) or a Bar-headed Goose (Anser indicus). I feel uncomfortable with Greylag Goose (Anser anser) partially because of leg color. There is a fourth species that has yellowish feet, the Chinese Goose (Anser cygnoides). The Chinese Goose x Canada hybrid may look quite a lot like this
http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/photo/hybrid/acygxbcan.shtml
although it often has some kind of a knob at the base of the bill. There are some Emperor Goose hybrids in the net, and they usually show the scaly pattern of the Emperor, a pale bill and a small size. This picture appears to show a rather large bird. The Grey-lag Goose x Canada is quite common, and kind of the "default hybrid". To be honest, I was stricken in Denmark in 2005/06 with the variability of what I considered to be GreylagxCanadas. They, as well as Finnish, Belgian and British birds still appear to show consistently a pale colored bill - you can see the Greylag in these birds. One could explain the pale head of your bird using a domestic goose in the combination, but still, I am quite uncomfortable with this hybrid set (e.g. bill shape).
Bar-headed(Indian)goose is one alternative. The white vertical pattern on the neck could suggest this. Your bird is somewhat similar to the Barnacle(Bleu)x Bar-headed hybrid from Kemijärvi, Finland
http://users.utu.fi/hlehto/photo/hybrid/aindxbleu1.shtml
How about then a Canada x Bar-headed Goose? I have seen and photographed two such bird with known parentage in Oslo on June 07, 1998. They had clearly pale bills, but with quite a lot of black color speckling. Note, that if you look carefully at your bird you can see some slightly paler areas. The head of the Oslo birds had a bit more dark than your bird. The rear part of the bottom of the neck showed a largish white spotted area. This is visible also in your picture. The same location had also a F2 hybrid Canada x(Canada x Bar-headed). It was very much more like a Canada Goose. I cannot see the color of the feet of this hybrid from my photos. Except for some white in the head the bird appeared nearly identical to a "normal Canada Goose". Your bird could be a F1 Canada x Bar-headed hybrid, or even a F2
Canada x (Can x BHeaded( hybrid, or ...

Regards
Harry J Lehto


Morten kofoed-Hansen skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 22.03
Hi Harry. Thank you for the comments. I have reported the bird as emperorXcanada, but will alter that to probable barheadedXcanada. The bird appears smaller than canadagoose in the field, though hard to estimate without comparisson.It is very vocal, sounds canadalike and yet not quite. Isn't there something about the undertailcoverts you use in relation to emperorgoose hybrids?
best regards
Morten K-hansen


Kenneth Rude Nielsen skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 22.29
Hej

Gåsen hedder nu gås sp.

Hilsen

Kenneth


Harry J Lehto skriver torsdag 18. januar 2007 kl. 23.24
Yes, the grey scaly parttern of an emperor goose continues all the way to the white tail, so the undertail coverts - and the uppertail coverts are grey. This usually results in at least some dark feathers in the undertail coverts area. In this bird the utcs are just spottless pure white.

Regards
Harry J Lehto


Kenneth Rude Nielsen skriver mandag 22. januar 2007 kl. 12.56
Hej

De to hybridgæs, der ses ved at klikke her er interessante i forhold til gåsen fra Vedbæk Havn.

Hilsen
Kenneth


Lars Michael Stenholt Nielsen skriver fredag 2. november 2007 kl. 18.30
Hej Jeg har fået denne mail fra
Jörn Lehmus fra Tyskland:

Hi Lars Michael,

I have commented on your birds at flickr! Thanks for sharing them!

also there is this
hybrid bird from Netfugl which I think has been misidentified:

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=listpictures&species_id=1050

It is Canada goose x domestic Swan goose (Chinese Goose);

compare with these Canada x Chinese Goose hybrid photos below:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/_pauls/79874906/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimsullivan/359064149/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/margmc/460906515/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58008645@N00/501646534/

http://www.clebsch.com/bird/12.14.05/can_wf_hybrid_goose.jpg

http://www.ahomls.com/kennyp/HybridGoose.jpg

And compare with these Canada x Barheaded Goose hybrids:

http://image02.webshots.com/2/5/66/17/120056617oUdijo_fs.jpg

http://image09.webshots.com/9/4/7/92/124340792TXQRmA_fs.jpg

http://www.avifit.de/Images/Ans_hyb-01A.jpg

http://www.avifit.de/Images/Ans_hyb-02A.jpg

http://www.avifit.de/Images/Ans_hyb-02B.jpg

http://waarneming.nl/foto_details.php?id=203000


You see Canada x Barheaded goose hybrids do not show black bills, but Canada x Chinese goose hybrids normally show a relatively massive black bill… also Canada x Chinese goose hybrids tend to be quite massive and do not show the slight greyish colour tinge Canada x Barheaded normally have on the body.

Maybe you could add this reply there, as you are a member of Netfugl?

Best regards,

Jörn


Lars Michael Stenholt Nielsen skriver søndag 8. marts 2009 kl. 15.50
Jeg er af denne gås højst sandsynligt er en Canada x Svanegås (tamform). Læg mærke til benfarven og det helsorte næb.

LM


Sebastian Klein skriver søndag 8. marts 2009 kl. 16.24
Wow!
Hybrids do really bring out the worst in people, don't they?

One parent is probably/certainly a Canada Goose (I reckon most people would probably agree on that!?), but the second parent seems to be up for grabs?
None of the arguments made by the (I am sure) very knowledgeable people above has so far convinced me of anything - except that hybrid identification is very tricky business.
Presently this Goose is labelled "Bar-headed Goose x Greater Canada Goose". I think there is a fair chance that that label is wrong!
There is simply not that many Bar-headed Goose-characters to find on the bird. In all fairness there is not a lot of characters of Chinese (I would have liked a knob on the bill!), Greylag or even Emperor Goose either - so perhaps it is better left more or less unidentified. Perhaps labelled as a "? x Greater Canada Goose" or with some other indication of this not being a very certain identification.



Knud N. Flensted skriver fredag 14. maj 2010 kl. 09.42
Jeg mener også, at dette er hybriden Svanegås x Canadagås.
Det passer med andre fotos af denne hybrid, og især benfarven, næbfarven og den 'store, høje gumpprofil' indicerer indblanding af Svanegås.


Knud N. Flensted skriver lørdag 26. juni 2010 kl. 00.15
Artsnavn er nu rettet til Svanegås x Canadagås.



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