Stor tak, Silas,

for at vise os en Hvidrygget ssp. 'lilfordi',
fordi... den jo udmærker sig ved at være knap så Hvidrygget -
snarere det amerikanerne kalder Ladder-backed = m/ [hvid]
stige på ryggen.

ID:
Med rødlig isse en Juv./Male ?

Yours ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, C.


har hvid

Selv tak, Carsten.

Jeg var heldig nok til at finde 6+ fugle ved Akseki. Jeg så en juvenil fugl, der havde blågrå flanker (dunrester). Den havde samtidig rød isse. Spørgsmålet er så, om alle lilfordi-ungfugle har rød isse, eller om de, som med Sortspætteungerne, allerede kan kønsadskilles på den røde isse i ungefugledragten.

Fuglen på billedet er dog en adult han, der holdt sammen med en adult hun og en juvenil. Alle tre sås i samme træ samtidig :-)

Lilfordi har jo væsentlige forskellige i forhold til ssp. leucotos - og det gælder både udseende, kald og foretrukken habitat. Så den tager sig i hvert fald ud som en anden art i forhold til ssp. leucotos. Men jeg har ikke kunne finde nogle grunde artikler, der belyser, om lilfordi rent faktisk bør ophøjes til art eller ikke. Så hvis I ved om noget, må I meget gerne sige til.

English:
The ssp. lilfordi of the White-backed Woodpecker differs from ssp. leucotos in both appearence, call and habitat. Does anyone know if any serious work has been done or publishes about these two subspecies and whether they warrent a spilt into two full species or not?

Best regards,

Silas

Dear Silas,

Lilford's Woodpecker was split as a separate monotypic species (from White-backed Woodpecker) in the Netherlands in 2012. In Dutch Birding magazine 34-01 several scientific articles are mentioned to justify this split (Matveyev1985, Perusek 1991, Grange & Vuilleumier 2009).
I have seen Lilford's Woodpecker in south-east Bulgaria , close to the Turkish border, but couldn't find any near Akseki in July 2012. Great photo, would love to see a bird so well!

Best regards, Eric.

Dear Eric

Thank you for this valuable information.

These birds are probably not uncommon a few kilometers north of Akseki as I encountered at least 6 birds. But I used several hours in the area before finally finding first two birds together and then three. They don't really make a lot of noise but forage from tree to tree (like a Treecreeper) - so they are not easy to locate at all. But once they are being found they are actually not really shy.

In Turkey there is much habitat similar to that of Akseki and I presume that they have a wider distribution in Turkey than what we currently know.

Best regards,

Silas

Dear Eric. I'm puzzled about your information stating that Lilford's Woodpecker is split in Holland. I cannot find any of the systematic authorities mentioning it as more than a possible future split. Maybe I didn't look hard enough?
B.r. Tau

Dear Tau,

You can find a list of all (potential) splits on the website of Dutch Birding:
http://www.dutchbirding.nl/page.php?page_id=229 (pdf)

This list is made by one of the members of the CSNA and updated annually. The CSNA is the committee on taxonomy and nomenclature of (especially) birds in the Western Palearctic. Members are Arnoud van den Berg, André van Loon, Kees Roselaar en George Sangster, some of which also contributed to BWP.

Hope this helps, Eric.

See also the discussion on Birdforum:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=219426

Eric

Thanks Eric.
But I'm still confused, which of course isn't your fault. But CSNA is but a national committee (Dutch).

The descision seems to relie solemnly on:
Grangé & Vuilleumier 2009. The White-backed Woodpecker Dendrocopos leucotos: two scenarios to explain the history of its distribution in southern Europe, and analysis of the taxonomic relationships between the subspecies lilfordi and leucotos. Nos Oiseaux 56(4).

I haven't read this, but it worries if splitting has become a national descition.
B.r. Tau

Dear Tau,

The fact that Lilford's Woodpecker is split in the Netherlands by the Dutch CSNA does of course not necessarily mean that taxonomic authorities in other countries have a similar opinion. It is however also a fact that the CSNA is the founder of many taxonomic decisions which were later taken over by other authorities. So every birder has to decide for himself which 'rules' to follow. I follow the Dutch approach for my lifelist and the Netfugl approach to compare my ranking with other WP-birders.
There are at least two other sources on which the decison by the CSNA is based on (see my first comment), although I don't know the content of these.

Best regards, Eric

Ok, now I understand. Tanks a lot Eric.